How to Battle these SHARKS of FOREX, CFD and whatever Sham they do.....these are just suggestion to set your mind thinking and TRAP these Sham Brokers in their own Game!!
**** Added 1 June 2015 *****
Looks like the Forgive Negative balance is a SHAM for PR purpose in case there is a Run to withdraw funds from Sham SCAM forex broners Saxo, FXCM, CMC, IG, City Index...etc....etc....Causes the COLLAPSE OF THESE SHAM BROKERS TRADING INSOLVENT. With things a bit better....the hunt in on again.. Now so many brokers are going after clients with Negative Balance. That is a SHAM...Must remember to Withdraw next tiem these SCAM Brokers in Trouble or BEING NICE by their PR conduct...A WARNING SIGN!! Better to see broker collapse than have negative balance in your account!!
I URGE THOSE WHO ARE IMPACTED TO NOT SEEK CLASS ACTION BUT LODGE IN THE THE LOCAL MAGISTRATE COURTS WHERE THEY WILL HEAR SMALL CASES LESS THAN $50,000 PERHAPS. Then Whack Saxo with their Delay and requote of price....Get individual who have smaller claims to WIN in the Smaller Courts against thse Sham Brokers and then SET The Precedent for others to benefit!
***** Added this thought: 13 March 2015
Remember Don't Pay..... and be careful of those CLASS Action and SCAM SHAM ORGANISED BY the SAME BROKERS THAT have made you Poor. They can Pay off a person/Client(Who has a price - BRIBED to go along the Scam/Sham) The Scam Broker can ask him/her to co-operate in their LONG..LONG ...LONG Litigation game (like 2-5 Years Process).... In the mean time you get frustrated, you paid some money for the representation and soon wonder as to why this persons, company, law firm is taking sooooo long to take these scumbags brokers in courts....and see the light of day. The brokers meanwhile hope to see you go away or Pay up their Ponzi Sham.... Just don't Pay them a cent and hope the Brokers bring you to court. The weight of evidence is heavier on the brokers side then on your side. To have an account with $30,000 and then Owing -$200,000 after the SNB Bomb is outrageous. Don't stress.....accept the $30,000 Loss and walk away...Never mind the negative $200,000 Balance...THE SHAMSCAM Brokers can have it and Keep them...meanwhile you can trade with another Brokers... ....such is the life of a trader...lick your wounds and fight another day...BUT NEVER GIVE in to SHAM-SCAM Brokers!!
******
First...#1... DO NOT PAY THE NEGATIVE BALANCE. Take a deep breath, relax and Demand a detail Report of the trades that was executed on your behalf, the margin call timing, time of execution, etc....buy more time to settle the dispute Make these brokers show you the trades you DID NOT MAKE but was made on your behalf. Get as much documentation as you can from them. make these Scumbags prove it was you who made those Limit orders, trades....etc.
BE NICE But DON'T Give them ONE Cent of their Demand...If these Scam Brokers issue a Legal Documents, then ask them for one that will give you your day in court. Be it in a local court major courts or whatever courts......Just come prepared and DENY that THE Negative Balance Was your responsibility. You may have an open trade and if the Broker Margin Call Terms and condition was correct then you should NEVER Be staring a a Negative Balance More than $3,000....at Best it should be Zero.
Let the Scam - Sham Brokers explain to the Judges how can someone at a Moment in TIME with Zero Balance in your account(after the Margin Call & Account CLOSE OUT invoked) can suddenly make you lose $20k $50k $100k $200k $500k....etc..... Tell the Judges that when you signed the document you had some understanding but not totally understood the MAGNITUDE of SUBSTANTIAL LOSS could be. If reasonable, the judge may make you liable for MUCH much much Less than the Negative amount the SCAM/SHAM Forex brokers are trying to Extort from you....Perhaps even declaring that the Negative Balance is NULL and VOID and Case Close, dismiss!!
ASK FOR ENTIRE COMPANY TRANSACTION DURING THE PERIOD OF 5 Minutes of SNB Bomb Madness......You see if you ask for a specific transaction it can be created.....hmmm The Brokers Scammer have the Database, datacentre and ANY MANIPULATION to the database can occur at anytime to be produced in courts....How are you going to counter that...think about it. Notice how many are all In House Computer shop...so better control of Manipulation. Are you sure they are the most honest in their transaction when they can make adjustment even after 10 hours AFTER the event.?? Create a scenerio of Doubt about Sham Brokers credibility, reliability and honesty...get the drift?
Don't Pay and challenge them in the court of the respective countries and let these SCAM Brokers Prove Beyond Reasonable Doubt to the Judges that the margin CALL executed at the same time your Negative Balance happened was CORRECT, reasonable and cannot be disputed. Never mind the disclosure you have signed saying that the Losses can be Substantial more than your Deposit amount...Let the Judge decide if the method of their action was reasonable, correct and LEGAL. Let the Judge determine if the Sham-Scam Brokers are operating some Sophisticated PONZI, Gambling or a legalised trading Financial brokerage SHAM.... See how many brokers will pursue you on your Negative Balance... you have to weight up if the Loss of $10k, $50K $200K $500k of equity worth pursuing further or you just want the Negative Balance to go away. Somehow I feel it is unfair to have an initial non margin equity of say $10,000 and the Trade on Margin due to SNB BOMB gave you a Negative equity of -$250,000...this is Beyond ridiculous and bordering on Loan Shark and SHAM of EPIC Proportion. This is possible if you had 500,000 units position a margin used of about $7,000 for a EURCHF at 1.2 and you were closeout at 0.8... roughly speaking..... Again you need to have this thought to prove to the Judges that the SHAM Brokers is operating ILLEGALLY like a LOAN SHARK & Scammers and NOT as a proper financial instrument broker!!
Let the Judges decide if the existing of these Brokers main AIM is to provide a service or ACT IN A CRIMINAL MANNER TO PROFIT, TO STEAL, TO EXTORT, TO SCAM, TO SCHEME, TO CHEAT AND LIE TO THEIR CUSTOMERS. Word it in such a manner that these brokers are acting like daylight robbers and ponzi operators or scammers. Paint a BAD image of these brokers and use evidence of your discipline in trading to prove that you have always stayed within the boundaries of your CAPITAL OUTLAY!!
No need to declare bankrupt to pay the fictitious Negative Balance you have in your account.
Don't borrow more money from Banks to pay back the SCAM Debt.
Don't commit a crime to meet the Sham Forex CFD Brokers demands.
Continue to think of things you can write to request a lower Negative Balance to pay and then keep writing until the ENTIRE NEGATIVE Balance is Forgiven. No harm writing, delaying, prolonging the payment back.
In fact if you go to court, you may even negotiate with the judge to have the payment back(If all else fail) in the LEAST INSTALLMENT Due to Hardship. Instead of Paying back immediately the $50k,$200k, $1 Million negative Balance immediately, by selling car, house, horse, mother in law.....you can negotiate to pay back $50 per month PROVIDED the Broker allow you to keep trading on their Platform....(obviously you want to give an impression you are still keen to stay with your SHAM Broker for Goodwill)......The Judge have the power to allow you REASONABLE TIME TO PAY Back the Amount......SO PLAY the WAITING GAME and the LONG TERM GAME with your Broker....
For all you know, perhaps the broker would settle for $1000 for a Negative $50000 balance immediately.....All depends on the JUDGE and the Brokers being ask to comply.
If need be meet them in court as the last resort to settle the Negative Balance to be Zero Balance...
Demand to see that this 1 second incident have been the Official Forex quotes and execution and NOT a Glitch, Flash Event or a Market Data Error event(that these SCAM SHAM Brokers seems to like to mention every time should you get some trades at a good price ..... only to be reversed and ABOLISHED from your account. In the same tone you can use this same scenerio to tell the Judges the same principle should apply to your case.
You can be high net worth and have traded regularly, profitably but that DOES NOT MEAN the Sham Brokers can demand Everything you own. The Negative Balance is NOT A DEBT.....You DID NOT ON PURPOSE INCUR THEM. IT Was the result of an event that neither you nor the broker had anticipated. An element of credibility of the event is circumstantial. Make the Sham broker prove that it was your Fault BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. EVERY THING MUST BE BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT FOR THE JUDGE TO MAKE YOU PAY UP!!
If you have money still in those Sham brokers like those in Administration in say UK but not in other Region....I suggest you start withdrawing from those Regions that these SHAM brokers are still Operating. Goes to show what scam they will do to keep scamming while they try to keep the Goose that lays golden egg alive in other region.... Totally Immoral Brokers in my opinion!!!@#$
As I get more ideas and feed back, I will just update this blog. You can always put some comments on the chat box below. This is an important issues to address and Perhaps make Brokers to Guarantee No NEGATIVE BALANCE!! About Time ALL Brokers have NO NEGATIVE BALANCE ACCOUNTS!!!..Even for all Scumbags CFD, Market Maker, ECN Accounts...
Some interesting points wort thinking about that have been gathered on the Internet..Google to search for them. There are some valid points listed by various people!!
All debt is enforceable by law. The misunderstanding most people have is that they mistakenly think that a contract with a broker showing negative balance is a debt. It's not, it's a claim that could be a debt if you agree with it or a court agrees with it.
I just did some research and neither an EEO nor the Brussels Convention can be used in relation to insolvency process. KPMG can and will be able to enforce uncontested debt, but not negative balances where the trader does not agree to it.
From what I read, according to finacial regulations (EU & US) brokers / dealers have to make sure that their financial instruments are "suitable" for you as an individual retail client. In other words, they (brokers) have to protect you from financial instruments that are not suitable for you, hence all the warnings.
I think it can be easily argued that if a financial instrument causes within a few minutes, not only a total account loss, but the trader owing substantially more, then the financial instrument was NOT suitable. I believe that any regulated broker that would sue a retail client for negative balance would not only have to prove that the trader has a debt, but also show that the financial instrument was suitable for this individual.
And this is WHY they are only going after the high net worth clients and the very profitable traders for the negative balances because with them, they can clearly show the forex IS a "suitable" instrument for them and if they still owed negative balance amount, then the brokers think they have a freer rein to go after them.
have never seen one that buys disputed claims. Even if Alpari / KPMG would manage to find such a debt collector these guys would have to sue you first and prove - using Alpari's data and Alpari's contracts - that the claim is actually valid before they can collect anything. Given that the chance of succeeding in court is questionable, lets say 70% if you want to be super optimistic, you'd also have to take clients unknown (and therefore possibly bad) credit situation and your own legal fees into account.
I wrote before that you will not pay anything in one of 3 cases:
1. They do not bother to come after you.
2. You can prove the Alpari or other broker breached the contract.
3. You can prove the contract is not valid in your jurisdiction specifically in the part of negative balance recovery.
Obviously, if they come to you the first option does not apply. To invoke the second option you have to sue the broker in the specified timeframe in the country by which laws the contract was signed. (English court in the case of Alpari, Danish court in the case of Saxo bank). Your contract should specify the court where the dispute resolution can take place. But the most important thing here is that you have to act and sue.
So, that leaves you with the last option to try to prove that the contract is void in your country and in any other country where you have assets or planning to have assets.
**** Added 1 June 2015 *****
Looks like the Forgive Negative balance is a SHAM for PR purpose in case there is a Run to withdraw funds from Sham SCAM forex broners Saxo, FXCM, CMC, IG, City Index...etc....etc....Causes the COLLAPSE OF THESE SHAM BROKERS TRADING INSOLVENT. With things a bit better....the hunt in on again.. Now so many brokers are going after clients with Negative Balance. That is a SHAM...Must remember to Withdraw next tiem these SCAM Brokers in Trouble or BEING NICE by their PR conduct...A WARNING SIGN!! Better to see broker collapse than have negative balance in your account!!
I URGE THOSE WHO ARE IMPACTED TO NOT SEEK CLASS ACTION BUT LODGE IN THE THE LOCAL MAGISTRATE COURTS WHERE THEY WILL HEAR SMALL CASES LESS THAN $50,000 PERHAPS. Then Whack Saxo with their Delay and requote of price....Get individual who have smaller claims to WIN in the Smaller Courts against thse Sham Brokers and then SET The Precedent for others to benefit!
***** Added this thought: 13 March 2015
Remember Don't Pay..... and be careful of those CLASS Action and SCAM SHAM ORGANISED BY the SAME BROKERS THAT have made you Poor. They can Pay off a person/Client(Who has a price - BRIBED to go along the Scam/Sham) The Scam Broker can ask him/her to co-operate in their LONG..LONG ...LONG Litigation game (like 2-5 Years Process).... In the mean time you get frustrated, you paid some money for the representation and soon wonder as to why this persons, company, law firm is taking sooooo long to take these scumbags brokers in courts....and see the light of day. The brokers meanwhile hope to see you go away or Pay up their Ponzi Sham.... Just don't Pay them a cent and hope the Brokers bring you to court. The weight of evidence is heavier on the brokers side then on your side. To have an account with $30,000 and then Owing -$200,000 after the SNB Bomb is outrageous. Don't stress.....accept the $30,000 Loss and walk away...Never mind the negative $200,000 Balance...THE SHAMSCAM Brokers can have it and Keep them...meanwhile you can trade with another Brokers... ....such is the life of a trader...lick your wounds and fight another day...BUT NEVER GIVE in to SHAM-SCAM Brokers!!
******
First...#1... DO NOT PAY THE NEGATIVE BALANCE. Take a deep breath, relax and Demand a detail Report of the trades that was executed on your behalf, the margin call timing, time of execution, etc....buy more time to settle the dispute Make these brokers show you the trades you DID NOT MAKE but was made on your behalf. Get as much documentation as you can from them. make these Scumbags prove it was you who made those Limit orders, trades....etc.
BE NICE But DON'T Give them ONE Cent of their Demand...If these Scam Brokers issue a Legal Documents, then ask them for one that will give you your day in court. Be it in a local court major courts or whatever courts......Just come prepared and DENY that THE Negative Balance Was your responsibility. You may have an open trade and if the Broker Margin Call Terms and condition was correct then you should NEVER Be staring a a Negative Balance More than $3,000....at Best it should be Zero.
Let the Scam - Sham Brokers explain to the Judges how can someone at a Moment in TIME with Zero Balance in your account(after the Margin Call & Account CLOSE OUT invoked) can suddenly make you lose $20k $50k $100k $200k $500k....etc..... Tell the Judges that when you signed the document you had some understanding but not totally understood the MAGNITUDE of SUBSTANTIAL LOSS could be. If reasonable, the judge may make you liable for MUCH much much Less than the Negative amount the SCAM/SHAM Forex brokers are trying to Extort from you....Perhaps even declaring that the Negative Balance is NULL and VOID and Case Close, dismiss!!
ASK FOR ENTIRE COMPANY TRANSACTION DURING THE PERIOD OF 5 Minutes of SNB Bomb Madness......You see if you ask for a specific transaction it can be created.....hmmm The Brokers Scammer have the Database, datacentre and ANY MANIPULATION to the database can occur at anytime to be produced in courts....How are you going to counter that...think about it. Notice how many are all In House Computer shop...so better control of Manipulation. Are you sure they are the most honest in their transaction when they can make adjustment even after 10 hours AFTER the event.?? Create a scenerio of Doubt about Sham Brokers credibility, reliability and honesty...get the drift?
Don't Pay and challenge them in the court of the respective countries and let these SCAM Brokers Prove Beyond Reasonable Doubt to the Judges that the margin CALL executed at the same time your Negative Balance happened was CORRECT, reasonable and cannot be disputed. Never mind the disclosure you have signed saying that the Losses can be Substantial more than your Deposit amount...Let the Judge decide if the method of their action was reasonable, correct and LEGAL. Let the Judge determine if the Sham-Scam Brokers are operating some Sophisticated PONZI, Gambling or a legalised trading Financial brokerage SHAM.... See how many brokers will pursue you on your Negative Balance... you have to weight up if the Loss of $10k, $50K $200K $500k of equity worth pursuing further or you just want the Negative Balance to go away. Somehow I feel it is unfair to have an initial non margin equity of say $10,000 and the Trade on Margin due to SNB BOMB gave you a Negative equity of -$250,000...this is Beyond ridiculous and bordering on Loan Shark and SHAM of EPIC Proportion. This is possible if you had 500,000 units position a margin used of about $7,000 for a EURCHF at 1.2 and you were closeout at 0.8... roughly speaking..... Again you need to have this thought to prove to the Judges that the SHAM Brokers is operating ILLEGALLY like a LOAN SHARK & Scammers and NOT as a proper financial instrument broker!!
Let the Judges decide if the existing of these Brokers main AIM is to provide a service or ACT IN A CRIMINAL MANNER TO PROFIT, TO STEAL, TO EXTORT, TO SCAM, TO SCHEME, TO CHEAT AND LIE TO THEIR CUSTOMERS. Word it in such a manner that these brokers are acting like daylight robbers and ponzi operators or scammers. Paint a BAD image of these brokers and use evidence of your discipline in trading to prove that you have always stayed within the boundaries of your CAPITAL OUTLAY!!
No need to declare bankrupt to pay the fictitious Negative Balance you have in your account.
Don't borrow more money from Banks to pay back the SCAM Debt.
Don't commit a crime to meet the Sham Forex CFD Brokers demands.
Continue to think of things you can write to request a lower Negative Balance to pay and then keep writing until the ENTIRE NEGATIVE Balance is Forgiven. No harm writing, delaying, prolonging the payment back.
In fact if you go to court, you may even negotiate with the judge to have the payment back(If all else fail) in the LEAST INSTALLMENT Due to Hardship. Instead of Paying back immediately the $50k,$200k, $1 Million negative Balance immediately, by selling car, house, horse, mother in law.....you can negotiate to pay back $50 per month PROVIDED the Broker allow you to keep trading on their Platform....(obviously you want to give an impression you are still keen to stay with your SHAM Broker for Goodwill)......The Judge have the power to allow you REASONABLE TIME TO PAY Back the Amount......SO PLAY the WAITING GAME and the LONG TERM GAME with your Broker....
For all you know, perhaps the broker would settle for $1000 for a Negative $50000 balance immediately.....All depends on the JUDGE and the Brokers being ask to comply.
If need be meet them in court as the last resort to settle the Negative Balance to be Zero Balance...
Demand to see that this 1 second incident have been the Official Forex quotes and execution and NOT a Glitch, Flash Event or a Market Data Error event(that these SCAM SHAM Brokers seems to like to mention every time should you get some trades at a good price ..... only to be reversed and ABOLISHED from your account. In the same tone you can use this same scenerio to tell the Judges the same principle should apply to your case.
You can be high net worth and have traded regularly, profitably but that DOES NOT MEAN the Sham Brokers can demand Everything you own. The Negative Balance is NOT A DEBT.....You DID NOT ON PURPOSE INCUR THEM. IT Was the result of an event that neither you nor the broker had anticipated. An element of credibility of the event is circumstantial. Make the Sham broker prove that it was your Fault BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. EVERY THING MUST BE BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT FOR THE JUDGE TO MAKE YOU PAY UP!!
If you have money still in those Sham brokers like those in Administration in say UK but not in other Region....I suggest you start withdrawing from those Regions that these SHAM brokers are still Operating. Goes to show what scam they will do to keep scamming while they try to keep the Goose that lays golden egg alive in other region.... Totally Immoral Brokers in my opinion!!!@#$
As I get more ideas and feed back, I will just update this blog. You can always put some comments on the chat box below. This is an important issues to address and Perhaps make Brokers to Guarantee No NEGATIVE BALANCE!! About Time ALL Brokers have NO NEGATIVE BALANCE ACCOUNTS!!!..Even for all Scumbags CFD, Market Maker, ECN Accounts...
Some interesting points wort thinking about that have been gathered on the Internet..Google to search for them. There are some valid points listed by various people!!
All debt is enforceable by law. The misunderstanding most people have is that they mistakenly think that a contract with a broker showing negative balance is a debt. It's not, it's a claim that could be a debt if you agree with it or a court agrees with it.
I just did some research and neither an EEO nor the Brussels Convention can be used in relation to insolvency process. KPMG can and will be able to enforce uncontested debt, but not negative balances where the trader does not agree to it.
From what I read, according to finacial regulations (EU & US) brokers / dealers have to make sure that their financial instruments are "suitable" for you as an individual retail client. In other words, they (brokers) have to protect you from financial instruments that are not suitable for you, hence all the warnings.
I think it can be easily argued that if a financial instrument causes within a few minutes, not only a total account loss, but the trader owing substantially more, then the financial instrument was NOT suitable. I believe that any regulated broker that would sue a retail client for negative balance would not only have to prove that the trader has a debt, but also show that the financial instrument was suitable for this individual.
And this is WHY they are only going after the high net worth clients and the very profitable traders for the negative balances because with them, they can clearly show the forex IS a "suitable" instrument for them and if they still owed negative balance amount, then the brokers think they have a freer rein to go after them.
have never seen one that buys disputed claims. Even if Alpari / KPMG would manage to find such a debt collector these guys would have to sue you first and prove - using Alpari's data and Alpari's contracts - that the claim is actually valid before they can collect anything. Given that the chance of succeeding in court is questionable, lets say 70% if you want to be super optimistic, you'd also have to take clients unknown (and therefore possibly bad) credit situation and your own legal fees into account.
I wrote before that you will not pay anything in one of 3 cases:
1. They do not bother to come after you.
2. You can prove the Alpari or other broker breached the contract.
3. You can prove the contract is not valid in your jurisdiction specifically in the part of negative balance recovery.
Obviously, if they come to you the first option does not apply. To invoke the second option you have to sue the broker in the specified timeframe in the country by which laws the contract was signed. (English court in the case of Alpari, Danish court in the case of Saxo bank). Your contract should specify the court where the dispute resolution can take place. But the most important thing here is that you have to act and sue.
So, that leaves you with the last option to try to prove that the contract is void in your country and in any other country where you have assets or planning to have assets.
